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  1. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #1

    Question What the @$@%$@ am I doing?

    I am turning down this year’s SANS training for an MCSE boot camp. I just wanted a technical cert because it’s been a minute since I’ve had one. Am I crazy?
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  3. Senior Member E Double U's Avatar
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    #2
    I just wanted a technical cert<-------= I don't understand this statement. SANS is also technical which you are aware of since you have GPEN. Maybe you should change I drink and I know things to I drink and I forget things.
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
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  4. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by E Double U View Post
    I just wanted a technical cert<-------= I don't understand this statement. SANS is also technical which you are aware of since you have GPEN. Maybe you should change I drink and I know things to I drink and I forget things.
    Ha! Maybe...

    I suppose when I look at all these job postings for DOD that require a computing environment cert, I feel a little under qualified.
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    #4
    MCSE can be done with self-study ... SANS no
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLavoie View Post
    MCSE can be done with self-study ... SANS no

    Actually you are 100% wrong. Any GIAC certification can be obtained through self study. For years this site has given the blueprint for how to do such for a few certifications.

    Nothing SANS is teaching is a trade secret. It's not like they are holding on to the formula of how to make Pepsi to keep it from the competitors at Coca-Cola.

    How can you self study SANS training? I am slightly confused. How can you self study training. That really didn't make any sense.

    I know people use SANS and GIAC interchangeably. You can self study for the materials that cover the GIAC exam/exam outline, yes. Self Study for an On Demand or self study for a classroom environment with a teacher standing in front of you, no. Anything SANS offers towards training for a certification can be obtained through self study.
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    #6
    I did a combo MCSA\MCSE bootcamp for 15 days straight. I didn't really get much out of it and employers really don't care that I have the cert.

    Should have done the SANS training since you will probably get more value from it.
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  8. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    I did a combo MCSA\MCSE bootcamp for 15 days straight. I didn't really get much out of it and employers really don't care that I have the cert.

    Should have done the SANS training since you will probably get more value from it.
    Do you mind sharing who you took it with?

    I loved the last SANS training I took, but I don't know what the next one would be.

    I think I'm at a crossroads. If I stay at my current company I'll probably be manager of my department in the next couple of years. If I switch and chase the $, then I want a Network/Security Architect type job. I know my company will pay for the MCSE, then I'll likely pursue CCNP-Security and CCDP through self study in the fall and spring. Then I'll either do ISSAP, TOGAF or SABSA.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoee View Post
    Actually you are 100% wrong. Any GIAC certification can be obtained through self study. For years this site has given the blueprint for how to do such for a few certifications.
    I agree with you that I am 100% wrong What I meant, is that the study material for MCSE is widely available and cheap while SANS material is not and expensive (even if I could substitute for other book). Hey, the self study kit for a SANS course is as expensive as a live course (6210$ USD).

    I understand that I should separate SANS training from the certification process too. However SANS training has a premium feel, IMHO.

    If my boss would pay me for either a SANS training another bootcamp, I would take the SANS without hesitation.
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  10. They are watching you NetworkNewb's Avatar
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    #9
    I like the idea of going for a MCSE. SANS courses can get pretty specific and if there isn't a course that jumps out at you I think a MCSE would be a great addition since its knowledge can be applied to most areas of security one way or another. To protect something as best as possible you should have a good idea of all inner workings.

    I really want to go for an MCSE myself too. Just planning on knocking out the CISSP first. Really depends on what you do and what knowledge will benefit you the most.
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  11. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkNewb View Post
    I like the idea of going for a MCSE. SANS courses can get pretty specific and if there isn't a course that jumps out at you I think a MCSE would be a great addition since its knowledge can be applied to most areas of security one way or another. To protect something as best as possible you should have a good idea of all inner workings.

    I really want to go for an MCSE myself too. Just planning on knocking out the CISSP first. Really depends on what you do and what knowledge will benefit you the most.
    I have to wait to see if I'm going to go in May or July at this point. I deal with guys who have OS level/AD/Service security issues every day. Knowing more about the inner workings of Windows will help me tremendously. The last MCSE training I went to was for NT4.0...
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  12. Completely Clueless TechGromit's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLavoie View Post
    I agree with you that I am 100% wrong What I meant, is that the study material for MCSE is widely available and cheap while SANS material is not and expensive (even if I could substitute for other book).
    I think he means you can obtain the materials from other sources, using the SANS course outline as a guide what you need to know. While this is certainly possible and has been done by others in the past, it's a LOT more difficult to pass the exam than just using the materials SANS provides you. What your going to end up with, is a dozen books or so to study to get the knowledge you need to pass the exam, few non-SANS books cover all the topics required to pass the exam, but some come close.



    I think this is one of the reasons SANS exams sometimes ask off the wall questions, to try to discourage someone not in possession of official SANS materials to be able to answer it.
    Last edited by TechGromit; 04-20-2018 at 06:15 PM.
    Still searching for the corner in a round room.
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  13. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #12
    Pfft. Just got redirected. Now doing the MCSE Cloud Platform & Infrastructure w/ MCSA Cloud Platform (Azure Admin Stack) with a side of 70-744: Securing Windows Server 2016. *EDIT* But the class is now booked and paid for. Woot!
    Last edited by Ertaz; 04-20-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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  14. Certification Invigilator Forum Admin JDMurray's Avatar
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NetworkNewb View Post
    ...I think a MCSE would be a great addition since its knowledge can be applied to most areas of security one way or another.
    Fully understanding how an Active Directory network works (i.e., operations and administration) is very, very important to architecting security solutions and solving security ops problems. It seems like I'm always asking AD people how this component or that process works in an AD network.
    Hell--I need an MCSE!
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  15. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by JDMurray View Post
    Fully understanding how an Active Directory network works (i.e., operations and administration) is very, very important to architecting security solutions and solving security ops problems. It seems like I'm always asking AD people how this component or that process works in an AD network.
    Hell--I need an MCSE!
    There you go man. I’ve got mixed feelings about being put on Azure, but I’m glad I got to retain the securing 2016 class. I’m eager to see what certification camps dot com has in store for those two weeks.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertaz View Post
    Do you mind sharing who you took it with?

    I loved the last SANS training I took, but I don't know what the next one would be.

    I think I'm at a crossroads. If I stay at my current company I'll probably be manager of my department in the next couple of years. If I switch and chase the $, then I want a Network/Security Architect type job. I know my company will pay for the MCSE, then I'll likely pursue CCNP-Security and CCDP through self study in the fall and spring. Then I'll either do ISSAP, TOGAF or SABSA.
    I did mine through Certification Camps. Don't get me wrong, our instructor was amazing and they really did an excellent job making sure we had a great experience, but the sheer amount of material covered is impossible to learn in a week or two. They really just teach you how to pass the exams since they can be rather difficult (you can fail by missing only a few questions). I've never done a SANS course or exam, but from what I've heard they don't disappoint many people. I mean, if your company will pay for it then absolutely do it.
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  17. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    I did mine through Certification Camps. Don't get me wrong, our instructor was amazing and they really did an excellent job making sure we had a great experience, but the sheer amount of material covered is impossible to learn in a week or two. They really just teach you how to pass the exams since they can be rather difficult (you can fail by missing only a few questions). I've never done a SANS course or exam, but from what I've heard they don't disappoint many people. I mean, if your company will pay for it then absolutely do it.
    After some research, the Azure Admin Stack MCSE doesn't have all self study material available yet. Looks like I'm in for a long two weeks.
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  18. Senior Member Node Man's Avatar
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    #17
    I have no clue what curse word fits into "@$@%$@"
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  19. I drink and I know things Ertaz's Avatar
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Node Man View Post
    I have no clue what curse word fits into "@$@%$@"
    That's the hash, with 3 salts. It keeps the pepper well hidden.
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