+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 First 123
Results 51 to 66 of 66
  1. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    378
    #51
    If I can give any advice to the next generation of tech workers...

    - Don't put yourself into massive amounts of debt by going to an average University. Unless you are graduating from an elite school such as MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc., you won't get the immediate ROI from some no name school. Elite schools are worth the money because of their alumni networks (if you can take advantage of them) and high academic reputations. If you can't get accepted into an elite school, find cheaper alternatives such as community college or schools like WGU since they are affordable, accredited and check off the box.

    - Find local meetups or networking events and grow your personal network. You'd be amazed at what jobs you can get simply by knowing the right people. Others can criticize this all they want, but half the people in my office were hired simply because they used to work with someone already here. Do not underestimate the power of your connections!
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  2. SS
  3. Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,823

    Certifications
    70-461 | ITIL OSA ST F | RMP | N+ | A+ | Project + | Server +
    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Iristheangel View Post
    CISSP would be good long term after you get that experience... I would say starting out there's a lot of security, networking, systems, linux, pen testing, virtualization, cloud, etc certifications that don't require any experience but are highly valued by the field.
    In regards to security which one certification would you recommend for someone trying to get into that space. ***That doesn't require experience like the CISSP.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  4. Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,823

    Certifications
    70-461 | ITIL OSA ST F | RMP | N+ | A+ | Project + | Server +
    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by ITSec14 View Post
    If I can give any advice to the next generation of tech workers...

    - Don't put yourself into massive amounts of debt by going to an average University. Unless you are graduating from an elite school such as MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc., you won't get the immediate ROI from some no name school. Elite schools are worth the money because of their alumni networks (if you can take advantage of them) and high academic reputations. If you can't get accepted into an elite school, find cheaper alternatives such as community college or schools like WGU since they are affordable, accredited and check off the box.

    - Find local meetups or networking events and grow your personal network. You'd be amazed at what jobs you can get simply by knowing the right people. Others can criticize this all they want, but half the people in my office were hired simply because they used to work with someone already here. Do not underestimate the power of your connections!
    I'm actually encouraging my daughter to get her Associates in Mathematics from the community college, then transferring over to a 4 year to finish up her bachelors of science.

    I've basically given her the green light to focus just on school during those 2 years without paying rent or car insurance as long as those grades are up. Once she hit's the bachelors program we'll have enough to pay 1 year of school for her and she'll need to pay the last year, assuming she completes in 4 years.

    It's not the best for her, but it's the most we can afford....
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  5. ABL - Always Be Labbin' Iristheangel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,792

    Certifications
    CISSP, CCIE DC, CCNP R&S/DC, CCDP, CCNA:RS/S/V/DC, CCDA, BCVRE, BCEFP, BCNE, CEH, CHFI, MCSE:S, MCDST, A/S/L/P/N+, some useless Citrix and CIW certs
    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    In regards to security which one certification would you recommend for someone trying to get into that space. ***That doesn't require experience like the CISSP.
    There are a few and it all depends on what you're looking to do in security. I also wouldn't limit it to one cert either. There's several there there that require no professional experience include but not limited to:
    - CompTIA Security+
    - CompTIA Cybersecurity Analyst
    - Many of the GIAC certifications
    - OSCP
    - OSWP
    - OSCE
    - OSEE
    - OSWE
    - CCNA Security
    - CCNP Security
    - CCIE Security
    - CCNA Cyberops


    etc etc etc


    Note: Some of these might not be practical for someone just starting out but, as many people have stated on this thread, getting a couple will go a long ways to get your foot in the door and accumulating more over the lifetime of your career will definitely help you get a leg up. It's a pretty fast and cost effective ROI depending on the cert and industry-recognized by most employers. Not to mention it'll help with the DoD Approved 8570 Baseline if you're working for a government contractor or the government itself: https://iase.disa.mil/iawip/pages/iabaseline.aspx


    P.s. Even without the required work experience for the CISSP, if you pass the exam you can still get the Associates of ISC2 which coulds towards the DoD 8570 IA baselines and still can help get that foot in the door so you can get the required experience.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
    Bonus TE Fun: Nerd Photos
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  6. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    744

    Certifications
    CCNA R&S, Security+, Network+, Linux+, Linux Essentials
    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    I'm actually encouraging my daughter to get her Associates in Mathematics from the community college, then transferring over to a 4 year to finish up her bachelors of science.

    I've basically given her the green light to focus just on school during those 2 years without paying rent or car insurance as long as those grades are up. Once she hit's the bachelors program we'll have enough to pay 1 year of school for her and she'll need to pay the last year, assuming she completes in 4 years.

    It's not the best for her, but it's the most we can afford....
    You might also want to look into CLEP tests and AP tests. Depending on what college/university she goes to, she could get credit for a lot of classes which would reduce the number of lower level courses that she needs to take. Even if she goes to a community college for two years, if she passes a CLEP test that is accepted by the college she(you) could save $200-300 per course. Let's assume the community college charges $90/credit hour. You'll being paying $270 for tuition and probably another $50 to $100 for textbooks putting the total cost for the course at between $320 - $370.

    A CLEP test will usually only cost $100 - $125 and study materials will probably run you another $25 to $50 for a total of some where between $125 to $175. If she attends a University that charges $300 - $400 per credit hours the savings are even more immense.

    I know self-study isn't for everyone. However if she is a self-starter and doesn't particularly enjoy sitting in class listening to a teacher read off powerpoint slides, then the CLEP tests would be a great way for you to save some money and for her to skip over some lower level classes.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  7. Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,823

    Certifications
    70-461 | ITIL OSA ST F | RMP | N+ | A+ | Project + | Server +
    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by thomas_ View Post
    You might also want to look into CLEP tests and AP tests. Depending on what college/university she goes to, she could get credit for a lot of classes which would reduce the number of lower level courses that she needs to take. Even if she goes to a community college for two years, if she passes a CLEP test that is accepted by the college she(you) could save $200-300 per course. Let's assume the community college charges $90/credit hour. You'll being paying $270 for tuition and probably another $50 to $100 for textbooks putting the total cost for the course at between $320 - $370.

    A CLEP test will usually only cost $100 - $125 and study materials will probably run you another $25 to $50 for a total of some where between $125 to $175. If she attends a University that charges $300 - $400 per credit hours the savings are even more immense.

    I know self-study isn't for everyone. However if she is a self-starter and doesn't particularly enjoy sitting in class listening to a teacher read off powerpoint slides, then the CLEP tests would be a great way for you to save some money and for her to skip over some lower level classes.
    Appreciate the follow up. I'll look into CLEP courses.

    Thanks
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  8. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    744

    Certifications
    CCNA R&S, Security+, Network+, Linux+, Linux Essentials
    #57
    Somtimes I agree with Iris and sometimes I disagree with Iris, but this time I'm leaning towards her side. It does seem like you are shifting the goal posts a little from your initial post, even if your intent was to make some of the underlying assumptions of your original post clear.

    One thing you can do to get a great job in IT


    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    Just one thing, not two or three. Just one....


    I'll start: A STEM degree, Math, Sciences, Engineering, Computer Science.


    IMO you get a heavy hitter from a top 25 Uni in their respective domains, you'll never need to get a certification or advanced degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    I'm asking on behalf of people getting into the field, whether it's some high schooler looking to join the work force or a career changer.

    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    I wouldn't say the quickest and easiest, the most efficient with long lasting ROI.


    Taking into account like you mentioned getting "in" to a field and continuing to get return out of it throughout the life cycle of an employee.

    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    Hardly....


    The objective of the post was, what one thing can you do for your career that will help you soup to nuts.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    I'm working off the assumption (which I personally believe to be accurate) that if you graduate from Stanford for example with a Computer Science degree, you are going to land a high level job immediately. (3 months after graduation tops, assuming you are leveraging internships and the connections).


    ...(Paragraph Omitted)


    One caveat to this, you are branded as a "special talent". The chances of you getting fast tracked into leadership roles are much higher with this model, than the certification model. IMO
    You start off asking for "one thing you can do to get a great job in IT". Later on you clarify that you're "asking on behalf of people getting into the field, whether it's some high schooler looking to join the work force or a career changer."


    You then further clarify that you are looking for what we deem would be "the most efficient with long lasting ROI"


    At one point you mention "one thing you can do for your career that will help you soup to nuts". Note, this definitely can be construed as being completely different than just getting a great job in IT.


    In subsequent posts you narrow down your definition of a great job to be a "high level job" and further clarify that a degree from a top 25 university will fast track you into leadership roles.


    From your first post you go from talking about one thing that will help you land a great job to the one thing that will help you land a high level job or leadership role.


    It seems like in reality you are really asking about what one thing will help someone land a management job?


    I'm just going to focus on answering the question in regards to "one thing you can do for your career that will help you soup to nuts."


    My answer would be to change jobs every 1 to 2 years(at least early on in your career and maybe into your mid and possibly late career), so your salary isn't stagnating in regards to the experience you are receiving at your job.


    Obviously there are exceptions to this, such as if you're regurlarly receiving promotions and pay increases, but you would still need to monitor if those promotions and pay increases are keeping up with what the going market rate is.


    This is based off the assumption that most people aren't going to land a great job or dream job for their first job. I'm also assuming that even if they do land a dream job their first time around, the dream job won't necessarily remain their dream job.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  9. Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,823

    Certifications
    70-461 | ITIL OSA ST F | RMP | N+ | A+ | Project + | Server +
    #58
    The question was very simple and basic.

    Just one thing, not two or three. Just one....

    I'll start: A STEM degree, Math, Sciences, Engineering, Computer Science.

    IMO you get a heavy hitter from a top 25 Uni in their respective domains, you'll never need to get a certification or advanced degree.
    Her reply

    It all depends on what you're doing in IT. I would argue a computer science degree from a top 25 university (along with the $100K+ in student loan debts) won't really have the ROI you're looking for with a network engineer, system engineer, VMware engineer, etc job. I would argue you could get the same jobs with the same pay ($100K+) with an IT degree and a couple certs + experience. Or just without a degree and the right certs.
    Most of the folks on this forum don't have a compsci or mathematics degree (myself included) and are constantly hit up with jobs. The one good thing about this field is that a degree isn't needed to play. Sure, it helps in some ways, especially in the beginning of your career, but I would argue that having a couple certs and being located in the right areas of the country are going to get your foot in the door easier and cheaper than a degree.
    Instead of answering the question, my opinion was attacked!

    She didn't want to participate in the thread she wanted to argue. She even stated it in her second sentence.


    @Thomas you weren't being objective, in fact you were being extremely biased. All my statements were quoted for you to make a biased case while none of hers were........


    I took the high road I acknowledge her view point and moved on......
    Last edited by DatabaseHead; 04-17-2018 at 02:44 AM.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  10. Senior Member NetworkingStudent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,189

    Certifications
    A+, Network+, and Security+. MTA: OS
    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    Just one thing, not two or three. Just one....

    I'll start: A STEM degree, Math, Sciences, Engineering, Computer Science.

    IMO you get a heavy hitter from a top 25 Uni in their respective domains, you'll never need to get a certification or advanced degree.
    One thing well...............confidence. Have confidence in your abilities and yourself!

    THE KEY TO CONFIDENCE - CT FLETCHER
    https://youtu.be/Wfp9rwivB-M
    When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened."

    --Alexander Graham Bell,
    American inventor
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  11. ABL - Always Be Labbin' Iristheangel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,792

    Certifications
    CISSP, CCIE DC, CCNP R&S/DC, CCDP, CCNA:RS/S/V/DC, CCDA, BCVRE, BCEFP, BCNE, CEH, CHFI, MCSE:S, MCDST, A/S/L/P/N+, some useless Citrix and CIW certs
    #60
    Oh dear god... You know that "I would argue that.." is a common expression in the English language, right? It's commonly used interchangably with "My opinion is..." It does not actually mean I'm trying to start an argument with you or attacking you by simply using that phrase.

    *facepalm*

    As others have said in this thread, the thread was extremely open-ended and open to interpretation. Especially when it seems like you kept changing the goal post on what you really wanted. Believe me, Thomas_ isn't biased towards me or anyone else. Like he's said, we've agreed and disagreed with either other in the past. We've had some good debates and other times we agreed. It's a healthy thing to have different opinions.

    If you weren't open to anyone else's opinions or didn't want anyone else to respond to your statement, why put it on a forum and not a blog?

    Also other people in this thread have the similar opinions that they didn't feel that a degree was the "end all and be all" of a career in IT and have stated opinions that they see experience, certifications, attitude, confidence, personality, etc were more important that a degree. I just happened to explain my reasons why I didn't feel the same way and you seem to think that was attacking you. I wasn't.

    Personally, I think the best most efficient thing you can do for your career is to get experience. Sometimes to get that exprerience, you have to get certs. No, I won't say there's one magic bullet cert out there so I use "certifications" as plural. Just like you can't get a degree without taking multiple classes and courses, using certs to get to the right place in your career usually requires just more than one. The good thing is that you can get multiple certifications early on in your career and relatively cheap in comparison to a CS degree from Stanford which makes it an excellent ROI. Usually anyone can get certs but not everyone can get into Stanford and get financial aid to afford the crippling debt after. My opinion was based on a broader audience and practicality.

    P.s. I missed the comments about management/leadership jobs, thomas. DB - I don't think we're going to change the others minds here so we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Iristheangel; 04-17-2018 at 05:02 AM.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
    Bonus TE Fun: Nerd Photos
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  12. Senior Member E Double U's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,275

    Certifications
    CISSP, CISM, GCIA, GCIH, C|EH, and more.
    #61
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    PS I am still pushing my daughter to get a degree in Mathematics from a top 25 school. As a parent I believe this degree will be one of the best you can hold in the future. Just my opinion.....
    This a good idea. I work in a SOC and we hired a guy fresh out of school with a masters in mathematics (no technical background whatsoever) and he is crushing it. I assume your daughter has the same photographic memory as this guy lol.
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." - Homer Simpson
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  13. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    378
    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by DatabaseHead View Post
    It's not the best for her, but it's the most we can afford....
    I think that's a great plan. If you can save her 3 years of college tuition, she will have a great head start to her financial future. There seems to be some social pressure for kids in high school to attend 4 year universities instead of community college first or else they will be looked down upon from their peers. Instead, we need to do a better job to educate kids in high school about their options which not only make sense for their education, but also for their financial future too. Kudos for providing her a better long term option!

    Personally, I went to community college for 1.5 years, transferred to a local 4 year university for a year majoring in Criminal Justice, then finally transferred again to a private university where I completed my IT degree. Looking back now, I wish I would have done something more cost effective, but I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life at the time. I'm glad I graduated from where I did, because it's a really good school (probably top 100), but it cost me in terms of taking on a lot of debt.
    Last edited by ITSec14; 04-17-2018 at 12:32 PM.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  14. Senior Member Mooseboost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    681

    Certifications
    CEH, CCNA: R&S, eJPT, JNCIS-SEC, CompTIA CSA+, CompTIA Security+, CompTIA Network+
    #63
    Looking at a higher level, I think the best thing singular thing you can do to get a great career position in IT is develop a drive. Find a way to become passionate about technology and learning. There is no degree, certification, or training course that can replace this because (in my opinion) without the desire to push yourself then that paper is only going to win you a chance on paper but there is so much more to obtaining a job than just the paper.

    What additional credentials you need to move up will always change but that baseline requirement of being able to push yourself doesn't change. When I first got into the field, I had no certifications. I managed to land a position at a local telco doing support and while I was there got my CCNA. That landed me a position in a NOC that sparked my career. I started making 20K in 2015 as cannon fodder and last year working for Cisco I made 120K. No degree, only certifications. My passion is my career and it has helped me advance rapidly.

    Past that I think the best thing you can do for your career is going to vary based on where you are in IT and at what level your career is. For example, I have always dreamed of getting my CCIE. At some point, I will probably circle back and get it but while it is a career changing in networking - in my field within security it isn't really going to have an ROI. So for networking - the CCIE is going to be that "best thing" for me. In some areas, it isn't so clear cut.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  15. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    453

    Certifications
    VCP5-DCV, CCNA R&S, VCA6-DCV
    #64
    Honestly there are so many things a person can do. It really depends on their situation more than anything I think.

    For a noob:

    I think getting a couple of entry level certs, getting hands on in a home lab and a help desk role to start is reachable for the most amount of people and can really get the ball rolling for your career in a hurry. All at a much lower cost than a degree. You can't go wrong with this approach, almost no matter what your situation is.

    Degrees are much more tricky though. The value can vary based on so many things. Experience level, location, the persons current financial situation.
    This is something I really believe is a case by case situation.

    If you can afford a degree without taking any debt go for it hands down. If you have to get into debt, then I recommend to really do their research and create a plan that allows them to go to University and pay off that debt in 5 to 10 years maximum. I wouldn't recommend taking in more than 20-30k in debt for college
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  16. Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    219
    #65
    this thread is hilarious.

    "Here are my thoughts, agree or stfu"
    Reply With Quote Quote  

  17. Senior Member devilbones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    90210
    Posts
    268

    Certifications
    C|EH, MCITP, ITIL-F, LSSYB, Sec+,CISSP, Linux+, CCNA, CHFI
    #66
    The right mindset. Be willing to learn, ask questions and share your knowledge with the team.
    Reply With Quote Quote  

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 First 123

Social Networking & Bookmarks